Posted by: Jim | December 18, 2008

Science is Humble. Christianity is arrogant.


Science comes from humility, and religion comes from arrogance.


That premise might sound exactly the opposite of the status quo, but allow me to prove my point.



          Always assumes its current paradigm is imperfect and awaiting improvement.

          Always shows its degree of reliability (All scientific papers indicate the margin of error in its findings.)

          Always allows contradictory information into the pool of knowledge.

          Will refute contradictions only with the use of facts—or the theory will be altered to allow in the new information.

          Has resulted in a current world view that humans are not particularly significant, other than that they have—by accident—achieved a higher level of intelligence.



          Assumes its doctrine is perfect and complete.

          Assumes its precepts are reliable in all cultures, in all times.

          Is not open to contradiction, regardless of evidentiary facts.

          Will refute contradictions by stating they are a deception of Satan, or not completely understood, or lies. The original theory is never openly altered on the basis of new facts.

          Has resulted in a world view that humans are “Sons of God” and that are merely in a fallen state. Once redeemed by God, they are “The Chosen Ones” and selected from among all the animals to commune with God.



Science comes from a place of humility, and tries to compensate for the flawed nature of human thinking. Religion claims to be authored by God, and to be perfect, and is therefore arrogant.


  1. I’m not sure you can say science is humble. Science can neither be humble or arrogant, just as Christianity can be neither. Only people can be humble, regardless of their belief systems. You can have a firm belief and not be arrogant about it. Both the scientist and the Christian has equal opportunity to be humble or arrogant.

  2. Also, I don’t pretend to have all of the answers. I look around this wonderful world we have and I personally think that it takes more faith for me to NOT believe in a God.

    It blows me away daily at it’s complexities from the smallest cell to the outer limits of space.

    I’m humbled. The smallest things can humble me, like a conversation with a child.

    There are both scientists and Christians (and yes, there are Christian’s who are reputable scientists, just as there are doctors and surgeons and geologists who are Christians.) who can be arrogant.

    I humbly put my trust in Jesus. I try to live according to his will for my life, and I am truly happy doing so.

    I am not brainwashed and I do not want to force my view on anyone. I am very happy to talk to people who are genuinely curious or who want to understand. I will offer an opinion to a loved one out of love, but will respectfully listen and take them as they are.

    I love people! All kinds of people. It’s hard to be arrogant when true love is your motivation.

    To me science is a way for us to try to figure out

  3. The last sentence was not supposed to be there. I started typing a thought and changed it.

  4. Something of a confused argument here.

    Science as an enterprise may, ideally, be a humble enterprise.

    So might religion.

    Both entertain doubt.

    However, scientists as humble? Have you spent much time in the company of doctors? I have one obligatory contact, an eminent specialist, also a religious conservative. His scientific beliefs dismiss anything outside of the world of modern medicine as hocus pocus, his religious beliefs dismiss anything outside of Christianity, as… that’s right, more hocus pocus.

    He can, however, talk enthusiastically about how the kidney develops through four distinct phases that recall the process of evolution… isn’t that the problem, cognitive dissonance? Isn’t that why listening to Todd and Ted hurts so much? It is the people who hermetically seal themselves off from views that conflict with their own, Or, busy themselves denouncing those views, without having explored them in any kind of meaningful way.

    On the other hand, I, like many who reject Jesus Christ, have been raised within the Catholic Church, know a deal about the Bible, and have also studied the effect of the Nazarene on Western history. It is entertaining that Christians are often at the forefront of pointing out this decay of the West, yet instead of recognising that Christianity is an integral part of this decline, they prescribe, yup, more religion. The objectification of Christ and the worship of our society of the skin, of the object of veneration, rather than that which it venerates, such things are easily diagnosed.

    That is why, in a curious way, I thrill to the Phelps family, because they are capable of seeing that the truly righteous are indeed outcasts in modern America (shame they are lunatics)

  5. Hi kingfelix,

    Your points are very interesting to me. I would like to hear more. Also, I don’t know who the Phelps family is, sorry if I should.

  6. Ted,

    What do you want to know?

    You can start by studying the righteous, a man who has the courage to denounce the entire direction of the US.

    A real man of God.

  7. kingfelix,

    I have never heard of that guy before. I can see your sarcasm by saying he is a real man of God. I consider myself to be a man of God, and I do not act or think like that man.

    I’m curious to learn more about the decline of the west and it being Christian’s fault. I’m also curious about this statement… “The objectification of Christ and the worship of our society of the skin, of the object of veneration, rather than that which it venerates, such things are easily diagnosed.”

    Thanks for the discussion. I want to point out again that I mean no harm and that I’m just a curious person. I like to talk to all kinds of people with all kinds of ideas because it fascinates me and it is enlightening and it is REAL. People are so complex and wonderful in their passions. I don’t judge anyone and I’m learning more and more to have a thicker skin.

  8. Ted,

    You realize that anyone can call themselves a man of god, and espouse virtually anything?

    It’s a meaningless assertion, actually.

  9. Ted,

    Why are Christians so obsessed with the signs of their religion? A Ten Commandments monument here outside a courthouse, the removal of Christian iconography, the proliferation of crosses, the Jesus bumper stickers, etc, etc. Icons. The thing is, images are fundamentally untrustworthy, they possess no absolute value. In the history of the church, they were first implemented to permit the illiterate to have suitable focus for their adoration. However, isn’t it clear that Christianity has set the tone for the history of the West? Or perhaps you disagree with that statement? It has produced a West that is obsessed with images, that are always the false idols, rather than with substance, it has also permitted words to rise to a power they do not deserve, with all its talk of The Word of God, etc. Do you venerate the Bible as literal truth, as revelation? As perfect? These aspects of Christianity exert their effect at every level, but Christians have performed some ju-ju and now see themselves as under threat somehow from a society that has taken its medicine for hundreds of years. Somehow a new and more aggressive, more confrontational ministry is required, to stop the forces of heathenism, those interlopers into the stronghold of faith that is the USA, from advancing further with their secular humanism (Bill O’Reilly asshat empty catch-all phrase, you’re rumbled Ted). Why has that secular humanism you deplore arisen so strongly in that “most free” of all nations, the USA? Why are so many people “doing their own thing”? A clue might be found in Christ’s life and his popular image, that of the man who is a law unto himself. Aren’t we precisely now blessed with a US where every man and woman sees themselves as Jesus Christ? As knowing best what is for them? (Even if this includes the slightly tortuous right-wing fundie mindset of ceding your entire will to a Rev Hagee, etc, whatever).

    Face it, Ted, Jesus Christ has been taken to heart and his message of going your own way, following your inner impulses, spurning the naysayers, etc, is alive and well and there in every queer Californian railing against the ossified sheet sniffers huddled in fear beneath their cross.

    It’s one and the same thing. One begat the other.

    If you had some more sense, you’d see that there’s actually something deeply correct in the analysis of Mr Phelps, in that he sees the things he deplores as America being punished. His remedies are extreme but logical, he is uncompromising and I salute him for that. Better than the $ worshippers trotting to the Mall of Christ in the Escalade each Sunday for the 2 minute hate.


  10. All hail the dialectic!

    I am risen.

  11. To quote your Jesus Christ Impersonating President – “I’m the decider”

    Of course, somehow, a lot of Christians supported this as being “God in the White House…” because, again, the worship of God (Mr Authority), has become confused with the worship of ALL authority (with a white face, at least)

  12. (that professes to speak in God’s name)

    Nobody with a soul could be duped by this schtick, he just hates what you hate, gays, polar bears and Muslims.

  13. kingfelix,

    Thanks for taking the time to pour out your heart and mind. I am not like the Christians that you write about. I love God and live a life that tries to please him. I have a hope of heaven after I die, and I want to take care of my family and love all people.

    I choose to love actively, not just as a response to the way I feel in the moment. People are created equal and deserve love and respect, no matter their social, economic, global station in life.

    Christianity has grown through history to be greater than you or I. It contains a massive amount of people who are all flawed and who can all misrepresent. I hope to be a person who represents my God well, but I am flawed, and I am not the worlds best writer or person in general.

    I try my best and I learn and grown and hopefully I’ll continue to do this until the day I die.

    It is too easy to take pot shots at such a huge number of people. It is easy to blame someone other than yourself for the woes of the world. It is easier to point fingers at another than it is to try to “pick up your cross” and move forward in a positive way.

  14. Jim,

    Absolutely I understand what you say, and I agree.
    Anyone can claim to be a man of God, or claim to be anything, including the flying spaghetti monster, etc. I understand this.

    That is why archeology, history, logic, science, spirituality, faith, love, hope, purpose, sympathy, emotion, physics… all are used to understand the world around us.

    We use our senses, our experiences and our intellect and heart to make our decisions on what to believe, what to think, and how to act.

  15. “…and if you hold these strings down with the fingers of your left hand on these ridges called ‘the frets,’ and strum your pick quickly across all the strings at once with your right hand over what’s called ‘the soundhole’, that’s called a ‘chord.’ Now you try it, Mr. Clapton!”

  16. churk,

    Are you trying to say that you are superior?

  17. Ted said: “It is too easy to take pot shots at such a huge number of people. It is easy to blame someone other than yourself for the woes of the world. It is easier to point fingers at another than it is to try to “pick up your cross” and move forward in a positive way.”

    I agree! So why are Christians blaming the country’s woes on Homosexuals and abortion? Would you like me to find quotes? I can find you so many that we would be reading for a long time.

    I suppose your response to this would be “Please don’t judge Christianity on Christians.” But I’m tired of that response, Ted. It seems like you agree with most of the criticisms I have with your religion, and yet you spend a great deal of energy defending it. Maybe you should redirect that energy toward making Christianity a more tolerable religion for the world to deal with. Turn your focus *inward* and work with your people to stop being such schmucks. You can do it Ted!

  18. Jim,
    I can’t control what other Christians do, just as much as you can’t control what other anti-Christians do.

    I have never blamed the country’s woes on homosexuals and abortion. “Christianity” doesn’t blame the country’s woes on it either. That statement shows your lack of understanding on this matter.

    You are not judging Christianity on Christianity, you are judging Christianity on some Christians. There is a big difference.

    I’m always happy to turn inward. I find it constantly disturbing that you attack Christianity as the worlds problem. ESPECIALLY when you are saying things like Christians are blaming the worlds woes on homosexuals (and hating that).

    I would much rather focus on those specific things that PEOPLE are doing. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian does not make it so. What is the fruit of their actions? I could do all sorts of atrocities in the name of whatever I choose, but that name has to be judged on it’s own merit.

  19. Ted, then why are the “true Christians” not turfing those despoiling the legacy of Christ from the churches? But instead are turning their energy towards hating people who are different than they.

    When I see true Christians outside Hagee’s church, denouncing him for soiling the name of Christ, when I see them outside Pat Robertson’s university, or opposing the Warren guy, maybe I’ll start believing that there are some true Christians at all. In fact, it’s left to your despised secular humanists to unearth and disseminate the seeds of truth about these people because true Christians continue to tacitly endorse such people. It’s called guilt by association.

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